Personality Disorders

» pink101 - Get The Ball Rolling

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What I meant by saying that it looked to me as thought you have things under control was not that you were controlling others; but, that you were organized in a way that leads toward achievement.
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A person can only do so much. And, I don't know how I would have handled your situation--only you can be the best judge of that. Life is filled with complexities.
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What do you think about self expression? Not only do we show ourselves to each other; but, we show our selves to our own person. We learn who it is that WE are in our own mind.
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We have significant people with whom we relate. Do they accept us for who it is that we are or do they want to change us so that we can measure up to their expectations?
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I liked your way of presenting consequences. We are Americans and that means we tend toward pragmatic understandings--consequences for actions. I think that is a practical approach to our days.
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Do you keep a journal?
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-- posted by pink101

» justwokeup - Get The Ball Rolling

Hi Pink.

Yes, I journal. In fact, I find I am doing it several times a day now. I used to exchange ideas, thoughts and feelings with certain friends,here, but that does not happen much anymore because our relationships are strained. Part of that is because I have changed with my healing and growth and the friendships are not weathering it well, as (I guess) it makes them confront their own demons and they prefer the comfort of denial. We have not discussed this. It's just that they don't call me anymore and I don't call them. It's not that I am *punishing* them for withdrawing from me ... it's that I don't have anything to say. I don't want to talk about my failed marriage anymore and all the other stuff feels like 'small talk' with a big white elephant in the room. Who knows? Maybe they think I am withdrawing from them. I did discuss this with one of my friends and since she's been dealing with the loss of her mother five months ago, she admitted that she feels detached. So, it's not all about me; everyone has their own issues. Still ... I have always been aware that I never truly 'clicked' with anyone here.

What do I think about self-expression? It's crucial to living an authentic life. All year, I was amazed by my rapid growth. I figured *stuff* must have been going on at a subconscious level and now I was finally seeing it, because people just don't change this much. I finally realized about a month or two ago that not all the changes in me were about healing and growth, as I thought. It's about getting to know the real me. I was in denial so long, and it was so pervasive, that I did not know myself ... my life was a big charade. It was disturbing, to say the least, when I figured this out. It caused me to doubt my ability to trust myself. Journaling has helped. Although I have journaled regularly for over twenty years, when my N gave me my last big silent treatment (Apr 3 - to a day at the end of July, 2005), I started collecting my journals and re-reading them. Ever since 1987, I had been writing about his silent treatments and I said the same things over and over and over ... I was horrified. I did not know what all the implications were, but I knew that I was holding evidence of my insanity. For me to try all these different ways of being patient, forgiving and nurturing, only to have his treatment continue, showed me something was wrong with me but I did not know what. After talking to my mom, I decided the best way to destroy this evidence was to soak them in big pots of water (to symbolize cleansing) and when the ink ran enough to be illegible, I bagged them up and threw them away.

Now I journal online. My earlier entries, from this year, are letters to myself, saved in a file on my yahoo account. My more recent ones are at online journal. I have not given anyone my name there, so I feel safe to write. I still refer to people with only a first initial, though.

Although I know myself better now than I ever have, I have so much more to learn. Of course, I am growing and changing as I learn, so it's all dynamic. You cannot step into the same river twice.

The people that I 'click' with are not here, where I live. My Dad and my brothers are out west. I can talk to them about anything, no holds barred. My childhood friends and one cousin that I still have wonderful relationships with are in Texas, California, Arkansas and Michigan. I don't know what that means exactly. I started journaling about it yesterday. I have never clicked with anyone here, in the northeast, where I have lived for twenty years, the way I clicked with the five people from different times/places of my youth. Ideas are surfacing. I think part of it is, I just have different values than people here. No right or wrong, good or bad, about it. Part of it is, I was in denial and always trying to present the facade of the happy little family. That's a nice way of saying I was a liar. How could I click, how could I have authentic relationships with anyone here, when I was a liar? Now that I am speaking the truth, people are uncomfortable around me. This is not a nice reflection on me, but ... that does not hurt me in the least. It just shows me that honesty is the best policy and, although I wrestle with the thought of leaving my adult sons behind, it is time for me to leave the area.

I have been applying for full time jobs that will pay enough for me to support myself here, in this very expensive part of the country. I think that if I cannot support myself here, by the end of January, that I will slap the $7,000.00 retainer fee on my credit card, file for legal separation, and when it's legal to do so, pack up my minivan and head out west. I have friends and family offering for me to stay with them until I get on my feet.

-- posted by justwokeup

» pink101 - Get The Ball Rolling

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Well, I have no idea if you are doing the "right" thing for your self or not; but, you are making strong choices and that seems to be "good" as far as I can see.
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I live in Michigan near Lake Michigan.
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If you haven't studied or read any of America's pragmatists, I'll bet you'd enjoy George Herbert Mead's work on the self. Here's a site Where you can find some good stuff: http://www.northcoast.com/~starfish/mind...
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-- posted by pink101

» justwokeup - Get The Ball Rolling

Thank you, Pink. I will read it and get back to you.

just woke up

-- posted by justwokeup

» ghulkman - Manipulation

Hey "Just" ......

I'm enjoying the dialogue between you and "Pink". Very good dialogue that can be helpful to others here, including myself.

My personal definition (Not Webster's) of Manipulation is:

"Any action by a person to achieve personal gain DISHONESTLY
at the expense of another person without any regard to that person's wants or needs"

What you attempted to do with your son is to set BOUNDARIES....
which is FAR DIFFERENT form Manipulation.

Boundaries NEED to be set to have ANY healthy relationship, whether it be with your kids, parents, friends, spouse or any other.

Manipulation is ALWAYS deceitful & dishonest ..... where the end result ALWAYS justifies the means in the "eye" of the manipulator (Ceratainly NOT in the eyes of the manipulated!!!)

"Hulk"

-- posted by ghulkman

» pink101 - Manipulation

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Right.
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We always need to put our words in context.
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-- posted by pink101

» justwokeup - Manipulation

Thanks, Hulk and Pink.

One of the toughest parts of overhauling one's personality is that the ripple affect creates an exhausting amount of work ...

Every little action, on my part, requires a lot of thought now, because I don't have automatic reactions anymore. So, even if I am confident that I handled something appropriately in the past, I need to go over it with a critical eye, to make sure that it is still appropriate with my new boundaries. That is one of several reasons that I appreciate constructive criticism: it saves me a lot of time and effort spent on figuring it out, if indeed, I believe it applies.

Pink, I am not done reading that site. I have a fairly good command of the English language, but he sure uses a lot of words to say that the relationship between an individual and society is dynamic and symbiotic.

Okay. So, things that I am mulling now are the difference between controlling and manipulative (I do see some fine differences), and how enforcing boundaries are mutually beneficial to all involved.

I appreciate this being an intellectual conversation, as opposed to emotional. The emotional ones are a good place to vent but my heart can go on and on like a broken record, because there are no 'answers'. Eventually, between figuring out the answers with my brain and letting my heart spend its pent up feelings, it all works out.

just woke up

-- posted by justwokeup

» justwokeup - Keep On Truckin'

Here Pink, this one's for you, thanks to the Grateful Dead ...

Truckin' got my chips cashed in. keep truckin', like the do-dah man
Together, more or less in line, just keep truckin' on.

Arrows of neon and flashing marquees out on main street.
Chicago, New York, Detroit and it's all on the same street.
Your typical city involved in a typical daydream
Hang it up and see what tomorrow brings.

Dallas, got a soft machine; Houston, too close to New Orleans;
New York's got the ways and means; but just won't let you be, oh no.

Most of the cats that you meet on the streets speak of true love,
Most of the time they're sittin' and cryin' at home.
One of these days they know they better get goin'
Out of the door and down on the streets all alone.

Truckin', like the do-dah man. once told me you've got to play your hand
Sometimes your cards ain't worth a dime, if you don't lay'em down,

Sometimes the lights all shinin' on me;
Other times I can barely see.
Lately it occurs to me what a long, strange trip it's been.

What in the world ever became of sweet Jane?
She lost her sparkle, you know she isn't the same
Livin' on reds, vitamin c, and cocaine,
All a friend can say is ain't it a shame?

Truckin', up to Buffalo. been thinkin', you got to mellow slow
Takes time, you pick a place to go, and just keep truckin' on.

Sittin' and starin' out of the hotel window.
Got a tip they're gonna kick the door in again
I'd like to get some sleep before I travel,
But if you got a warrant, I guess you're gonna come in.

Busted, down on Bourbon Street, set up, like a bowlin' pin.
Knocked down, it gets to wearin' thin. they just wont let you be, oh no.

Youre sick of hangin around and youd like to travel;
Get tired of travelin' and you want to settle down.
I guess they can't revoke your soul for tryin',
Get out of the door and light out and look all around.

Sometimes the lights all shinin' on me;
Other times I can barely see.
Lately it occurs to me what a long, strange trip its been.

Truckin', I'm a goin' home. whoa whoa baby, back where I belong,
Back home, sit down and patch my bones, and get back truckin' on.
Hey now get back truckin' home.

-- posted by justwokeup

» ghulkman - Learn From The Past

Hey "Just" .....

I know you are struggling right now as I have in the past with my EX-BPD wife. It's sorta' "Funny" to me now that she accused me of being "Domineering & Controlling" because I set BOUNDARIES, wanted to SAVE MONEY and pay bills ON TIME .... DID what I SAID I would do ...... Make PROMISES and KEEP THEM .... and tell the TRUTH always ...... hide NOTHING ..... and do for OTHERS expecting NOTHING in return.

SHE just couldn't "Grasp" that kind of behaviour!!!!!!!

Of course, when one suffers from one Mental Disorder (NPD) or
another (BPD) ..... THEY never CAN !!!!!!!!

One thing I've learned from EX-BPD wife is that there is NOTHING I can do about the THEN and the NOW when it comes to her..... EXCEPT .....

Learn NOT to repeat my MISTAKES from the PAST.

If that means being a little "leary" or "Gun Shy" of people or situations in life ......

At the very LEAST I've learned something that will be helpful to me today ..... tomorrow..... and the next day.

Best Of Luck .....

"Hulk"

-- posted by ghulkman

» justwokeup - Learn From The Past

Thanks, Hulk.

This is going to sound chauvinist, but the truth is I mean it in the best way. From what I've read, men don't like it when a woman is 'once burned, twice shy'. I've made it a point, especially in my coping mechanisms for dealing with an N, to 'let go of the past'. Well, anyway, that's what I thought I was doing. Now, of course, I realize that I was in denial.

I am trying to find that 'normal range' I spoke of earlier. I don't want to be some kind of middle-aged, cynical bitch in the man-haters club. On the other hand, I spent over half of my life being a doormat and I am forever altered.

So, for a man that was manipulated by a woman with BPD, to say that he's navigating that normal range on the spectrum between learning from his mistakes to avoid repeating them, and I would guess, not becoming some hardened sourpuss ... I am breathing a sigh of relief. It does not have to be a female or male struggle, but a human one. When you're relearning how to cope with challenges, in the attempt to be healthy, everything becomes a question.

Thanks again.

just woke up

-- posted by justwokeup