Personality Disorders

» mkinoly - Ever tell partners that they were N?

justwokeup--what books did your N see?

I can't afford the house without her. I suppose I could get a roommate, but that would make me really uncomfortable (being the introvert I am). Plus, I see what you're saying about loving your place and then just wanting to leave. I had so many plans for this place, such big dreams, I thought I'd live here with her forever. Now I don't really care that I need to sell it, aside from the fact I have nowhere to go. I'm not sure I'm at the point where I've lost interest in all reminders, since I'm just coming to grips that I need to remove myself from the relationship, but I'm sure I'll get there.

-- posted by mkinoly

» mkinoly - Is my partner NPD?

Just got an email with this in it:
I am sorry that you are so closed off. You are very sensitive and have a tendency to take things the wrong way and internalize it.
Yes, after consistently being mistreated by the person claiming to love me I do have a tendency to internalize it!! And yes, I am closed off. It's called self-preservation and not giving her another chance to mess with my mind and twist everything so I give her another chance!

I am constantly amazed at the things she says, her responses to what I say. Even after all this time I'm still surprised at what she comes up with.

-- posted by mkinoly

» joolz - Is my partner NPD?

Hi mkinoly, welcome. I'm sorry you've been having some trouble lately.

I'm sure it won't be the last time you hear these ridiculous statements, you get used to it after a while and come to expect the worse. Just don't ever doubt yourself and think that it could be something to do with you. When you're at a particularly low ebb, no doubt she'll try to throw in what I like to call a "grenade", some statement that is tinged with the truth wrapped in a whole load of bulls***. Beware of those, just when you think you're ok, they can be very damaging and send you into freefall.

Just, yes I did just want to get as far away from that house, the neighbours, friends as I could. Its a little strange to begin with, like starting over again with no friends or anything and awkward having lost a lot of confidence and therefore the ability to make friends but you get there. I have a nice bunch of friends now that I go out with occasionally and meet up with lots.

Best wishes to all.

Joolz

-- posted by joolz

» justwokeup - Is my partner NPD?

Thanks, Joolz. All this time I've been asking myself, "How could I leave my sons?" and the truth is, and you know this better than me, it has nothing to do with leaving my sons. It will be a very real consequence when I go, but go I must. It's about feeling out of touch with myself, my boundaries, my needs ... when I am surrounded by everything that is him ... and the northeast is him ... and I need to leave him. It's like losing a limb to gangrene ... if you don't cut it off, you're going to die.

After the heated discussion with N's brother the other night, and ensuing emails between N and his brother, and me getting cc'd ... I have been wrestling with some inner conflicts. It's too much to go into now; I am absolutely wiped out. Couple that w/the retirement and pension fund discussion and my therapy session this afternoon, and I would like to go to sleep for about four days.

On the way home, I listened to Desperado by the Eagles and cried my eyes out. I know what I am feeling is textbook N victim feelings: if only he could have stopped the silent treatments and shared his thoughts and feelings with me ... I sobbed so hard and had smeared mascara when I walked into my house to find my son and his friend inside, "HI MOM! HI MRS XXXXXX!" Ack! Anyway, they're real feelings but they're not supported by thoughts or gut instinct, so they're not in danger of keeping me here. Besides, and this is so new that it's still kind of scary: my feelings don't last for long anymore.

I like your definition of grenade, too. Yeah. *shaking my head*

mkinoly ... just understand and accept that you're going to go from strong to weak, decisive to confused, sad to numb ... and back and forth, back and forth. Just roll with it. Don't put too much value into those feelings. They're real, but they're transient, and you will think you are losing your mind if you assign more worth to them than they have. Do not allow her words to penetrate your core. They can buzz outside your head and you can observe your reactions, but that's it. Otherwise, she'll sink another hook in you. You don't want to be with her for over twenty years before realizing that there is just NOTHING you can do ... except leave. That's your only choice if you want to hope for your future. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but that is just the way it is.

Uncover, discover, discard.

just woke up

-- posted by justwokeup

» sotired46 - Ever tell partners that they were N?

Curious,
My N had a really creeping way of staring at me until I returned the look. He used to do it every time we spent time together. After I had done some reading I discovered that it was a classic control technique used by Ns to intimidate their victims. When I brought it to his attention as an N behavior (after a particularly long stare) he just shurgged it off and said "I just like to see a person's eyes when I spend time with them. It's important to me." He was casual with the comment, but then sometime later that evening got defense with me over something very minor. The stares used to make me really uncomfortable--like a piece of meat. Of course, now I know that was exactly what I was to him--prey--to be devoured. The stares were always part of the seduction phase of the cycle. After which came, devaluation, and then discarding. Over and over again. I was just in such denial about it all.

The last time I interacted with him he reinforced all the makings of the cycle. Overt sexual content to seduce. When I wouldn't bite and exposed some obvious lies and holes in his current story, he just reverted to reminding me that he would never be available to me the way I wanted and that he really didn't want to expend any energy on someone who called him a liar. Also that I was never all that accessable to him. Telling me that oh, he'd love to have something very casual with me and sometimes the formality of it all messed him up. You see, all of this just project the blame back to me. "Love to have something very casual with me"?? Translation--"I'd love to have you there whenever it is convenient to me and I have nothing better going on"!!!! What a self-centered creep. You bet! Anytime they are faced with the wants or needs of others they cannot relate,nor do they want to do so. Unless you are pretending to swallow their BS they have no use for you.

Each time I interact with him I see it more and more. Each time I interact with him he is less interested in me--I'm way to honest and real--he can't have that in his life. It would destroy the illusion of his fantasy world.

Oh, I'm rambling now, but I really need to do so. Thanks for listening everyone. Happy evening to all of you.

-- posted by sotired46

» justwokeup - Ever tell partners that they were N?

_In Sheep's Clothing Understanding and Dealing with Manipulative People_ by George K. Simon, Jr., Ph.D. and _The Wizard of Oz and other Narcissists Coping with the One-Way Relationship in Work, Love, and Family_ by Eleanor D. Payson, M.S.W.

Both were validating. Both had parts that made me feel like the author had been spying on us for years to write their books.

Maybe you won't lose interest in all reminders. The thing is, on top of all of this crap with my N, our youngest graduated from high school and went off to college this year ... and my N is retiring, starting terminal leave in a couple of weeks. People often think that a midlife crisis is freaking out about getting older. Well, it's more complicated than that: it's a very normal life stage, like terrible twos. Also, it seems to the people that research these things, that people that were living a fairly authentic life don't usually have a major crisis, they have more of a 'bump in the road'. People like me, however, that were living a lie, have MAJOR CRISES. This is my fault; I take full responsibility. I may have more to say on this later, but being a co-dependent married to a man with N tendencies made me RIPE for a major crisis. So ... that said ... I think everything going on in my house was like gasoline on a fire, and I am ready to just walk away from all of it.

Will I? I don't know. I put the brakes on my plan. Originally, I was talking of going back west in spring '08. Now, I think I should move into an apartment in the same town as my house, so I can see my boys. THEY are the reason that I am not heading off west anyway, so I need to see them. Next year, my oldest will be a senior. What if his first job op takes him away? These are things that will affect my decision.

If you are in your 'home town' and have family and lifelong friends fairly close, why would you run off? I love my in laws, but I feel awkward around them right now. I have been part of their family for over half of my life. I have no desire to cut them out of my life. I just feel like I need to be in weather that I like, near the ocean where I hung out as a kid, and see my family in Ca on a regular basis. I cannot imagine not being a regular part of my sons' lives but right now I cannot imagine spending the rest of my life in the northeast, either.

We'll see.

-- posted by justwokeup

» mkinoly - Is my partner NPD?

Hey there joolz... thought I'd share that you were right, of course... the "grenade" was launched this weekend.

When my partner and I agreed to buy a house together she promised to pay the majority of the mortgage, while I worked at our joint business to earn money to pay for the rest of it. That was the only way we could do it. While I do have a good full-time job, my money is commited elsewhere, including paying a large child support bill. So I don't have much "extra" at the end of the month, and I am certainly not a big shopper into material goods. I really don't spend much money aside from bills and groceries and rarely buy myself anything.

So now that she and I are splitting up and preparing the house to sell, she has decided she should not have to continue to pay the amount she was paying towards the mortgage. She should only pay half, and I should pay half. This was on Friday. The mortgage is due Monday (today).

As I said earlier in a different post, I had to quit our joint business because she forced me out of it by not being flexible and letting me have time with my daughter on special occasions and being a tyrannical jerk. So I no longer have that income (it was only $250/mo but it helped alot), and I suddenly have this $525 bill to pay for "my half" of the mortgage! Of course the mortgage is only in my name and comes out automatically from my bank account.

This all JUST AFTER she wrote me a note saying how she wishes we could try again, how she loves and cares about me, wants to protect me. HOLY CRAP!!!

I tell her I don't have $525 to suddenly start covering this new bill (which she already knows). She tells me I make more than her (not true), I make $4000 a month (not true), and that I should stop taking my mother to "expensive restaurants" (I take her out to get groceries and to dinner once a week--she's 81 years old, can't drive, doesn't really have anyone else, she needs me and looks forward to our visits--we usually go to Taco Bell or Subway, occasionally to Olive Garden or the local Chinese restaurant), and to stop doing stuff for/buying stuff for my 12 year old daughter (she is a low maintenance kid--she doesn't want fancy clothes, expensive electronics, etc. The most we do is go bowling or a movie, or I drive her to an event she wants to go to and buy a fast food lunch, or buy her a pack of Pokemon cards). Apparently I'm supposed to stop providing small comforts for my family and live in poverty. Ain't she sweet?

Now I feel so desperate and anxious about money. I'm 41 years old and have never, ever had money issues. I've always been responsible and lived within my means, and never fought about money with my other partners, we were always both responsible and giving. Now I have to use my meager savings to cover this new bill every month until the house is sold. We all know the housing market sucks right now, and it being winter makes it even worse. The house still needs some repairs to make it more sell-able, but she never finishes her projects, and I don't know how to work those scary table saws and all that stuff.

Now she says she'll just move out. That will stick me with the entire mortgage, all the utilities, everything... god, I feel so sick about it all. I'm right in front of her, crying, telling her how hard it is, explaining things, asking her questions, and she's cold as ice, arguing, blaming, defending. Then she says I NEED TO KEEP MY PROMISES!! How do these people live with themselves?? Pure evil. The coldest heart I've ever seen.

-- posted by mkinoly

» justwokeup - Is my partner NPD?

hi mkinoly,

I was just looking online for resources to recommend but realized that you're going to have to do it because specific info is needed.

I know you're already over your head with financial concerns, but I think at this point you need a good attorney. It's not just about meeting expenses ... it's about preventing your credit from being destroyed. You're probably going to have to slap a retainer on a credit card and just make minimal payments. Doing this, though, will show that you aren't trying to slip out the back door without paying those you owe ... that you are truly in a bad situation. I think, in the long run, it will protect you, even though it will take a long time to dig out of this hole.

Best wishes to you.

just woke up

-- posted by justwokeup

» mkinoly - Is my partner NPD?

Thanks for responding, justwokeup. I really appreciate you looking out for me and trying to find me some help.

I don't think I have any legal recourse, really. Her name isn't on anything (she has semi-bad credit whereas I have excellent, so it all went in my name). And of course there's no paperwork, signed agreements, or whatever. Silly me, so naive, actually trusted the person claiming to love me and wanting to spend her life with me.

And of course we're not married--I never thought I'd be thanking the religious right-wingers for banning gay marriage, but thank you for saving me from myself!! If we were married she'd be able to claim half the house selling proceeds, half my bank accounts, etc...then I'd be really screwed.

I have enough savings to pay my surprise new bill for about 4 months. However, that savings wasn't for this. I need some dental work, my kid has 2 life-threatening medical problems that can be expensive at times, and it's nice having that little cushion there. But I guess it is for emergencies, and this is an emergency. I'm glad I've been saving that money so at least it's there.

I will protect my credit vigorously. I've had perfect credit my whole life, and I do plan to have a house sometime in the future, so it's very important to me to protect my rating. I know I will get out from under all this in the end, but it's a stressful, anxiety producing, heartbreaking journey all the same.

Thanks so much for caring and listening.

-- posted by mkinoly

» justwokeup - Is my partner NPD?

Hi mkinoly,

I understand that there is no written agreement to be enforced. However, there could be an official trail to prove that you're trying to do the right thing. Also, w/regards to the business, there must be some sort of recourse. I wish I had a viable solution. You know, I bet you could get a consultation for about $250.00. Yes, it's an investment ... but I think there must be some way to at least cover your credit history, even if you have to ask for some type of hardship allowance.

Boy ... aren't we all going to be just FREAKING BRILLIANT once we dig ourselves out of this mess!

best wishes ...

just woke up

-- posted by justwokeup